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Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

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Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by Possum on Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:00 am

Here we go again with this august group of ninnies. Hundreds of thousands fewer students since this group was formed and they still complain about alleged classroom overcrowding. Their math sucks. This group has had to have every contract but one imposed and they are claiming the government has ripped up their negotiated settlement??

The premiere should get on the news and tell them if they strike they have lost their jobs. They make more than they are presently worth and they want more.

They start out with better than two months off in the summer time.
They get every weekend off
They get every statutory holiday off
They get every March break off
They get every Christmas Vacation off
They get about 14 extra PD (paid shopping) days every school year
and they want more.

Time to explain to them we can't afford them at these rates.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by chrisale on Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:58 am

Go ahead and do it.

But first. You teach for one year.

And I don't care about your teacher relatives...

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by WetCoastKid on Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:02 am

chrisale wrote:Go ahead and do it.

But first. You teach for one year.

And I don't care about your teacher relatives...

So we have to be a member to have an opinion now do we? WTF!? scratch

And what if I am one of the early childhood educators who is not a member of the sacred BCTF? They deal with the same kids at a worse stage and get shit compared to your cushy assed union leaders...

I say cut the wage increase, fund the special needs with said money and everyone wins. Times are tuff- Can't garner much sympathy from the sorry SOB's who now are scrambling to get care for the kids that are are the only real victims of this strike action.

And don't you think for a goddamn second that the lack of extra effort hasn't been felt in some of the classrooms. This entire school year has been an embarrassment to all parties involved, no shit it has turned out this way- bom

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by chrisale on Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:20 pm

If there was the same ratio of teachers to students as there are ECEs to kids, we likely wouldn't be having this discussion.

The bottomline is that if the teachers had just accepted Net Zero and signed a contract at the start we wouldn't be here debating about class sizes, composition, the poor conditions in our schools and the poor results of our students.

As it is, it hasn't mattered anyway, since the government still refused to put that stuff back in the contract and negotiate it as they were ordered to do by the Supreme Court.

This comes down to Union busting and lack of respect for our children by our government. No different from seniors care where the unions are getting decimated and seniors are dying in their own filth.



Last edited by chrisale on Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by WetCoastKid on Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:26 pm

chrisale wrote:If there was the same ratio of teachers to students as there are ECEs to kids, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Your lack of ability to provide any rational argument is astounding. Apparently we aren't having a discussion...

-so what are the ratios you speak of?

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by chrisale on Sat Mar 03, 2012 1:46 pm

And the reason I said go teach for a year is that Possum and many others say all the stuff they say without a clue as to what it actually means to teach a class.

"Babysitters" "People who can't do, Teach"

That's the ignorant attitude I hear often on CKNW.

If you are an ECE or a person with half-a-brain you know how stupid that is. And you also know that as an ECE there is a specific ratio of kids to ECE in preschool. I'm sure it would be a dreamworld fantasy of every primary teacher out there to have those kinds of ratios (1:8 I think? I don't remember now)

I am not part of the BCTF but my parents were teachers here and I have many friends who are teachers. I also see the results from our K-12 education system when they come to VIU, and it's not getting any better.

The issues haven't changed for 30 years. There has been a consistent decline in the number of teachers and a consistent increase in what they need to do in the classroom in terms of individualized learning for students with various needs and challenges.

It is same pressure we feel at VIU from the Administration to take more in classes, work with special-needs off the side of our desks, and only expect to be granted more classes to deal with demand if we agree to get payed 1/4 the rate.


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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by WetCoastKid on Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:17 pm

chrisale wrote:And the reason I said go teach for a year is that Possum and many others say all the stuff they say without a clue as to what it actually means to teach a class.

"Babysitters" "People who can't do, Teach"

That's the ignorant attitude I hear often on CKNW.

If you are an ECE or a person with half-a-brain you know how stupid that is. And you also know that as an ECE there is a specific ratio of kids to ECE in preschool. I'm sure it would be a dreamworld fantasy of every primary teacher out there to have those kinds of ratios (1:8 I think? I don't remember now)
Apparently you "Don't remember now"? Sounds like you don't know what the ratio of teachers to students in this debate is either? Google could help ya there...

I am not part of the BCTF but my parents were teachers here and I have many friends who are teachers. I also see the results from our K-12 education system when they come to VIU, and it's not getting any better.
Nope, don't give a damn about your "relatives" in the field...

The issues haven't changed for 30 years. There has been a consistent decline in the number of teachers and a consistent increase in what they need to do in the classroom in terms of individualized learning for students with various needs and challenges.

It is same pressure we feel at VIU from the Administration to take more in classes, work with special-needs off the side of our desks, and only expect to be granted more classes to deal with demand if we agree to get payed 1/4 the rate.

Every kid in my daughters preschool class was a "special need". Tell me Mr. VIU, how many times does the average teacher get spat on? Kicked? Verbally abused beyond belief and told to smile or else...

Sure there are some angels,( I am sure we all think our kids are) But there is plenty of behavioral problems that come with almost every human three-year-old. 8-1 is not so peachy when you look at the average work environment and resources available to all those involved. If you can control 20 individuals with a clock, I would say that is easier than two with every ounce of your effort and creative ability to do so.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by chrisale on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:15 pm

WetCoastKid wrote:
Apparently you "Don't remember now"? Sounds like you don't know what the ratio of teachers to students in this debate is either? Google could help ya there...

I have a kid in preschool too and he's going to have 40 kids in the little building at Alberni Elementary on Monday because of the strike.

But it does illustrate the problem perfectly.

By law the preschool must have 7 staff there for 40 kids. IMO. That's insane for that age group even though that's 1 for every 5 kids. Though I think it includes the staff person who is assigned to the autistic child. And yet, next year when our kid goes into kindergarten it turns into 1 teacher for 22-25 kids (our daughter was in kindergarten 2 years ago) plus it will be full day instead of half day. More insanity.



Nope, don't give a damn about your "relatives" in the field...

Just to be clear, that was a comment specifically aimed at Possum based on past conversations I've had with him... inside baseball...


Every kid in my daughters preschool class was a "special need". Tell me Mr. VIU, how many times does the average teacher get spat on? Kicked? Verbally abused beyond belief and told to smile or else...

Do you know? Do those kids just disappear when they go into primary? No. In fact, they become even more needy because they are expected to learn at the same pace but are not given the resources to do it.

If the ratio of ECEs to preschoolers is insane, how can you say that the ratio in primary and secondary is better?

It's all insane. We are on the same page. Time to start putting the blame where it is deserved. Government.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by chrisale on Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:31 pm

Here's an interesting factoid I learned last week. You know the exemptions boxes on property taxes? A friend of mine who recently moved from Ontario asked what the exemptions actually exempted, specifically the seniors exemptions, since they live in Oceanside.

Answer:

School taxes.

So we have what is, or will soon be, the majority of BC residents not paying School taxes. This is money that is directly calculated and delivered to direct to the school boards in the region that collects the taxes.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by pen on Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:33 pm

I must be looking in the wrong places. I can find no seniors' exemption for school taxes. I found school tax exemptions for agricultural property but that's not specific to seniors. I found other school tax exemptions for land use, but nothing there says every senior is exempt from school taxes.

Can you expand on that factoid? I'd like to save some OAP toward birthday prezzies for the grandkids if I could. Thanks.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by WetCoastKid on Sat Mar 03, 2012 4:49 pm


If the ratio of ECEs to preschoolers is insane, how can you say that the ratio in primary and secondary is better?

It's all insane. We are on the same page. Time to start putting the blame where it is deserved. Government.

1- How often has a first grade teacher been hit when they tried to lead a group activity?
2- How many first graders are in "pull-ups"?
3- How many times a day does a high-school teacher get spit on?

How do you make a case for 1 teacher working with 8 pre-schoolers vrs 1 teacher working with 20 "semi-obidient" students that can open their own yogurt tube?

I agree that if the government were to take an entirely different approach, there could be a better situation worked out for everyone involved.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by chrisale on Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:50 pm

pen wrote:I must be looking in the wrong places. I can find no seniors' exemption for school taxes. I found school tax exemptions for agricultural property but that's not specific to seniors. I found other school tax exemptions for land use, but nothing there says every senior is exempt from school taxes.

Can you expand on that factoid? I'd like to save some OAP toward birthday prezzies for the grandkids if I could. Thanks.

Apparently it's not actually written so on the property tax form itself. But he asked at his regional district office when he went in to pay his taxes and that's what they said. *shrugs*

I doubt anyone even knows it to be so if it is true. Would be interesting to see what people thought if they did know.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by chrisale on Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:56 pm

WetCoastKid wrote:
If the ratio of ECEs to preschoolers is insane, how can you say that the ratio in primary and secondary is better?

It's all insane. We are on the same page. Time to start putting the blame where it is deserved. Government.

1- How often has a first grade teacher been hit when they tried to lead a group activity?
2- How many first graders are in "pull-ups"?
3- How many times a day does a high-school teacher get spit on?

Is it really worth getting to that level? Just because most kids grow out of that stuff by the time they're in kindergarten and beyond (though certainly not all!) doesn't mean there aren't many many other developmental and individual issues. AFAIC, ECEs and Teachers are one and the same and should be treated and compensated and receive the support they need their their situations.



I agree that if the government were to take an entirely different approach, there could be a better situation worked out for everyone involved.

And that's the attitude that would actually help. The government loves to say they're trying really hard, but anyone who is in or near the system knows it's bull. They're cutting every corner they possibly can and they put the blame on the teachers and students.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by WetCoastKid on Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:22 pm

chrisale wrote:
AFAIC, ECEs and Teachers are one and the same and should be treated and compensated and receive the support they need their their situations.
But they don't, not even close... I know that is another topic all together, so I will leave it at that. -

And that's the attitude that would actually help. The government loves to say they're trying really hard, but anyone who is in or near the system knows it's bull. They're cutting every corner they possibly can and they put the blame on the teachers and students.

The government also likes to sway public support, so in effect, this strike is helping the government pit parents against teachers. I think it's time the BCTF wakes up and changes tactics or disband and let the ideals of a union go with it.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by Possum on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:01 pm

Chris lets not get into a who's relatives are better teachers because I know I'd win that argument hands down. The factoid that there are approximately 200,000 fewer students in BC than 15 years ago was brought up more than once with the BCTF so their class size argument is crap. They get more per hour actually spent working than other teachers in other provinces as was pointed out to the president of the BCTF quite succinctly not long ago.

I have taught young children (9 to 13 year old children) and received awards for the great job I did so that alone puts me one up on you, being I volunteered to do this puts me two up on you. The whole argument that the teachers are doing this for the kids is really rather nauseating and is total bullshit so lets not pretend about that any longer, OK? I also tutor (again for free) a young lady who was failing high school, she now is achieving passing grades so what's that tell you about our great and glorious teachers.

Its time for them to shit or get off the pot.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by chrisale on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:25 pm

Possum wrote:Chris lets not get into a who's relatives are better teachers because I know I'd win that argument hands down. The factoid that there are approximately 200,000 fewer students in BC than 15 years ago was brought up more than once with the BCTF so their class size argument is crap. They get more per hour actually spent working than other teachers in other provinces as was pointed out to the president of the BCTF quite succinctly not long ago.

I have taught young children (9 to 13 year old children) and received awards for the great job I did so that alone puts me one up on you, being I volunteered to do this puts me two up on you. The whole argument that the teachers are doing this for the kids is really rather nauseating and is total bullshit so lets not pretend about that any longer, OK? I also tutor (again for free) a young lady who was failing high school, she now is achieving passing grades so what's that tell you about our great and glorious teachers.

Its time for them to shit or get off the pot.

The fact that you make it more about 'who's better' than who says a lot. And says nothing about the issue at hand. I'm not going to engage in that sort of stupidity which is why I said what I did at the start.

All you care about is your anti-union screed. Same as this government. And that is a big part of what is decimating our childrens education and our grandparents quality of life. Being you're a lot closer to it than me, I truly hope that you never have to go into a home and experience what this government has created and promotes.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by Possum on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:33 pm

Chris someday you will wake up and see the bear. I hope its not eating you when you do. The teachers are all about bettering their lot in life and it has nothing to do with the kids. Too bad you can't open your eyes to the greed.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by chrisale on Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:38 pm

Possum wrote:Chris someday you will wake up and see the bear. I hope its not eating you when you do. The teachers are all about bettering their lot in life and it has nothing to do with the kids.

Of course it is. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by Possum on Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:39 am

I have heard that there is speculation the facebook student strike was orchestrated online by teachers. A friend in Kelowna was told this by his daughter. Two or three things teachers have done around this 'Job Action" should lead to dismissals and reprimands but we all know this will never happen because of the union.

Teachers taping kids mouths shut should be resolved in court but this also will never happen in BC. Teachers refusing to allow a child, with known kidney problems, to go to the washroom should have been thrown out of the profession and somehow these dimwits are revered by their close ties.

Only in BC eh?

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by WetCoastKid on Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:07 pm

So... looks like phase 1 is coming to a close?

The bell-to-bell B.S. is only going to be in effect till spring break and they are going into a "cooling-off" period... or so they plan.

While I want the teachers back at work as much as the next parent, I Googled "Bill 22" and read over some of the conditions and fines for anyone who wants to bite the hand that feeds them.

I can't help but imagine this sledgehammer-like legislation will be setting a very bad precedent for up-coming union/gov labor disputes. If Mr. Abbott can bring in a mediator that will put kids first, raises second, and stands up to any further cuts to education- He may have a hope of getting the public pressure against the union.

As it stands though, almost every parent I know would rather support their teachers and the vibe is shifting towards a more anti-government feeling. Who knows? Every party involved has embarrassed themselves and done their part to ruin a year of schooling for kids all over B.C.

This legislation may get the teachers off their asses, but it sure does suck to see it done in such a manner. If the adults in the room could have stopped acting like the kids they were neglecting, perhaps this outcome could have been avoided.




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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by Possum on Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:05 pm

chrisale wrote:

Apparently it's not actually written so on the property tax form itself. But he asked at his regional district office when he went in to pay his taxes and that's what they said. *shrugs*

I doubt anyone even knows it to be so if it is true. Would be interesting to see what people thought if they did know.
Well I just got off the phone with a whole whack of people and I was reminded by the regional office that they do not take tax payments from anyone anyway so that negates that little titbit of information. The people quasi responsible for tax collection of tax payments if you chose not to use your bank claim they don't know enough about it to give the question any kind of a guess and the province calls BULLSHIT to what was stated. Joe Average citizen cannot opt out of paying the school tax.


Last edited by Possum on Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by chrisale on Wed Mar 14, 2012 6:12 pm

Possum wrote:Joe Average citizen cannot opt out of paying the school tax.

Just did a quick search for BC property tax and came upon the BC Finance Ministry Tax website:

http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/individuals/Property_Taxes/Home_Owner_Grant/additional_hog.htm


In addition to the basic grant, the additional grant can reduce your property tax by a further $275, for a total of up to $845. However, it cannot reduce the amount payable to below $100. This minimum amount payable ensures all homeowners (or eligible occupants, which includes an eligible occupant of an eligible apartment, housing unit, land cooperative or multi-dwelling leased parcel) contribute towards the funding of local services such as road maintenance and police protection.

Schools not included in that 'all homeowners' thing.... hmmm.

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by Possum on Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:54 pm

Cool, I'll be able to cut off my funding of these nimrods if what you say is true. Nothing like thinking that most of those with tenure shouldn't have tenure. I do find it strange that not once in the history of the BCTF has a teacher been let go because of being incompetent, at best all the principles of the various schools can do is ask that incompetent teachers be transferred elsewhere as was evidenced at Alberni Alimentary and the teacher with the Duct Tape Fetish.


Last edited by Possum on Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by chrisale on Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:43 pm

Possum wrote:Cool, I'll be able to cut off my funding of these nimrods if what you say is true.

Nimrods and the nimrods they teach. But who cares eh, as long as you get your way...

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Re: Disbanding The Dysfunctional Teachers Union

Post by Possum on Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:46 pm

Chris, I don't like people who pretend they are hard done by. The teachers are paid quite well (in all areas of education) and do get paid much better than most and have way better benefits and working conditions. They work less than 1/2 of the time and still find reason to bitch.

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