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Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

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Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Last October, the people of Beaver Creek voted 73% in favour of converting the Beaver Creek Improvement District (BCID) into a service area of the Alberni-Clayoquot Regional District (ACRD).

Five months have passed and BCID has not shown much movement towards the conversion.

The ACRD has committed $800,000 to infrastructure upgrades in 2012 and more recently applied for an additional $810,000 grant for a total of $1.61 million in water system improvements for Beaver Creek.

It was proposed that June 1st be a target date for conversion to enable work to commence in 2012 as these funds cannot be used for works that are not the responsibility of the ACRD.

BCID was supposed to make a decision to move forward with the conversion at last night's regular monthly meeting however the meeting was cancelled. The note on the door did not specify why it was cancelled however said the next meeting will be held on April 16th.

Rarely do leopards change their spots. Chances are high that BCID trustees are up to the same game that they have been playing all along trying to maintain the status quo. Is it time to rally the troops AGAIN? Doesn't the voice of the people mean anything to them? ACRD has put their best foot forward and now its time for BCID to do the same.





Last edited by The Invisible Man on Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : clarity)
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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by Possum on Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:09 pm

The Invisible Man wrote:I did name the person that stood to gain from the BCID/Corix deal. I said the person is "local" and "almost everyone that follows the issue knows about it." Both of those quoted statements are true.

Recently I attended a public meeting that had nothing at all to do with Beaver Creek water and people in that meeting were talking about the above information. I was not the source of their information. It is something that is widely known in this community.
Bwahahahahahahah

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:50 pm

There is lots of good information on THIS BLOG.

A timeline of much of what has transpired in this issue is found near the beginning:

Beaver Creek Improvement District (BCID) has experienced water quality problems for many years. A 1998 report on water quality said the Stamp River was “inundated with silt and mud.” The report also noted “the extreme degree experienced during [that] period [had] also occurred approximately four times per year since 1995.” Records do not exist prior to 1995.

In May 2000, the potentially lethal E.coli O157:H7 bacteria contaminated a small town‘s water supply in Ontario. A CBC news report called “Death on Tap: the Poisoning of Walkerton” said the bacteria “seeped into Walkerton's town well. The deadly E.coli then slipped quietly through a maze of pipes and into the homes of Walkerton, Ont.” In the end, seven people were dead from drinking that tainted water and another 1286 fell ill. The report also said “the investigation which followed exposed an alarmingly unstable waterworks system made fragile by government cuts” (Canadian Broadcasting Corporation).

In May 2003, the provincial government introduced the Drinking Water Protection Act. The legislation requires minimum water treatment standards, and monitoring/testing, and specifies water quality standards. It also requires public notification of water quality problems.

In 2003, the Vancouver Island Health Authority (VIHA) recommended that BCID add advanced water treatment to the water distribution system. Chlorination alone was not sufficient. Every years since, on an annual basis, VIHA made a similar recommendation.

Since the introduction of the Drinking Water Protection Act, BCID has experienced an average of four(4) boil water advisories per year. Almost all of the alerts were due to too much turbidity in the water. When the level of turbidity rises in drinking water, people with compromised immune systems, the very young, and the very old are at higher risk of becoming ill from drinking it. Each time, the advisory remained in place for a week or more.

On two separate occasions, in January and March 2007, BCID failed to report potentially unsafe drinking water to the public. Like in Walkerton, the chlorination system failed and the public was not alerted. Test results indicated BCID‘s water system was contaminated with E. coli bacteria. There was no way of knowing if it was a lethal strain of the bacteria. Had it been the same strain that the people of Walkerton experienced, the community would likely have suffered serious health consequences.

In November 2007, the Office of the Ombudsperson conducted a special investigation into the matter. The report titled “Fit to Drink: Challenges in Providing Safe Drinking Water in British Columbia” said the investigation “resulted in a number of recommendations including that BCID update its emergency response plan and work with the regional health authority to update conditions on its operating permit” (BC Ombudsperson).
In March 2008, VIHA adopted the 4-3-2-1 treatment rule for surface water, which aimed to provide drinking water year-round with less than 1 NTU turbidity and a dual barrier treatment system, usually filtration followed by disinfection.

In 2008, VIHA requested BCID, and a large number of other water purveyors, to provide an achievable time frame to provide a plan to bring their water systems into compliance with current legislation and the new 4-3-2-1 surface water treatment policy. The various operators were advised that in the absence of any concrete proposal VIHA would be looking at April 30, 2011 as a recommended default date. The BCID Board did not respond therefore the default date was added as a condition on BCID's operating permit.

In 2008/2009, several deep wells were drilled in the Beaver Creek area. Information obtained from a local well driller indicates the wells were “entirely unsuitable for drinking water."

In April 2009, at BCID's annual general meeting, residents directed BCID Board of Trustees to look at the pros and cons of converting the improvement district into a service area of the regional district. Improvement districts do not have access to government infrastructure grants. Regional districts have access to government grant programs and also low borrowing rates through the Municipal Finance Authority. Residents also directed BCID board to look at all source water and water treatment options. At no time during the discussions did any member of the public request that BCID look at a private water utility as a means to resolve the water quality issues.

In June 2009, BCID sought public approval to borrow “about $6 million” to upgrade the water system. Shortly after entering into the public approval process, BCID withdrew from it without providing residents with an explanation. Upon further investigation it was learned that BCID did not have an approved plan. There are no meeting minutes to support BCID decisions. The issue came as a surprise to residents as nothing was mentioned about BCID's plan at the annual general meeting held six weeks earlier.

In August 2009, BCID sought public approval to borrow $650,000 for the purchase of land to construct a filtration plant. Residents turned down BCID's request to borrow the money. There were 318 alternate approval forms returned to BCID. That's well over double the number (135) that was required to reject the proposal.

In October 2009, BCID invited an expert on local government restructuring to lead a public discussion on the different governance options available, including the option of the BCID becoming a service area under the Alberni-Clayoquot Regional District's (ACRD) jurisdiction. At the end of the meeting, residents agreed to wait for the outcome of the Alberni Valley Regional Water Study before making a decision about changing governance structures. It was clear at the meeting that the best option available was to convert the improvement district into a regional district entity.

Early in 2010, BCID completed a water treatment assessment. The report indicated a new intake, pump house, and filtration plant was required. Capital costs were estimated to be $4.6 million (new Stamp River intake and pump house $800,000; filtration plant $4 million).

In April 2010, at BCID annual general meeting, residents discussed the conversion process and were openly dismayed that BCID had not moved forward in the process. Residents said they wanted a referendum ballot on the governance issue. It was suggested that BCID bring the matter to a ballot during the November 2011 local government election.

In May 2010, BCID advised VIHA that they were pursuing the option of becoming a service area under the ACRD. In a letter to VIHA, BCID proposed to pursue connecting to the City of Port Alberni's water system. The City was supportive of the connection “as part of a regional water system.”

In September 2010, the “Alberni Valley Regional Water Study” was finalized. This report looked at all of the possible sources for drinking water in the Alberni Valley and offered four possible options. BCID's portion of the capital costs ranged between $2.7 to $4.7 million, depending on which option is chosen. A short time later, a public meeting was held to discuss the report.

On October 20, 2010, a news report in the Alberni Valley Times indicated “the Beaver Creek Improvement District board has resolved to change its governance structure to become a regional service area within Alberni-Clayoquot Regional District. BCID chairman Ted Maczulat said members made the decision at their board meeting on Monday evening.”

On November 15, 2010, BCID discussed “Corix Utilities Inc. P3 or outright purchase of BCID...” (BCID meeting minutes).
Near the end of April 2011, BCID signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Corix Utilities Inc. The BCID agreed to work exclusively with Corix to develop a water utility strategy. The confidential agreement restricted the public's access to information. The public was not consulted nor are there any meeting minutes to support BCID decision to enter into the agreement.

On May 6, 2011, BCID held their annual general meeting. Corix was invited to present their proposal for the public/private partnership. Corix said that capital costs for the project were estimated to be $6.1 million (supply works $3.3 million; distribution works $2.8 million). Corix also informed residents that they expected an 8.9% return on their investment. The term of the proposed agreement was 21 years. The public was not provided with anything in writing about the proposal.
May 2011, “BCID Water Infrastructure Assessment” was completed. As part of a regional water system, capital costs for BCID were estimated to be $5 million (supply works $3 million; distribution works $2.1 million). With the BCID continuing on its own with treatment at the Stamp River intake total capital costs were estimated to be $6.9 million (supply works $4.8 million; distribution works $2.1 million).

At a regular monthly meeting held on June 20, 2011, BCID informed meeting participants that the confidential MOU agreement between themselves and Corix was canceled. There are no meeting minutes to support the BCID's decision.

A June 23, 2011 news report in the Alberni Valley Times said “A memorandum of understanding between Beaver Creek Improvement District and Corix Water Systems has expired, but the private water provider continues to develop a proposal to take over the rural water system, according to BCID board chair Wayne Hasler.” (According to the MOU, the agreement would not expire for another 5 months.)

In an e-mail sent to BCID on June 24, 2011, Corix made the following statements about the proposed P3 agreement:

  • The interest rate for borrowing is 6.5%

  • The projected total cost of operating and maintaining the system over the 21-year term of the proposal was $8.4 million.

  • The 8.9% return on investment reported earlier amounts to $3.3 million over the period of the agreement.

Corix stated that the numbers were “based on assumptions” and “as transparent as it gets."

A letter to the editor published in the Alberni Valley Times outlined the long-term costs of the public and private options. "The private water utility's investment was estimated to be just over $37 million ($37 million X 8.9% = $3.3 million) and Beaver Creek residents would be on the hook for every penny of it." The long-term costs of keeping the water system public would be somewhere "between $16 million and $24.5 million, depending on whether BCID became part of a region-wide water system or continued on its own with treatment at the Stamp River intake."

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by pen on Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:02 pm

The Invisible Man wrote:I did name the person that stood to gain from the BCID/Corix deal. I said the person is "local" and "almost everyone that follows the issue knows about it." Both of those quoted statements are true.

Recently I attended a public meeting that had nothing at all to do with Beaver Creek water and people in that meeting were talking about the above information. I was not the source of their information. It is something that is widely known in this community.


No, you did not name the person. It could be anybody "local." Meaning everybody "local" is suspect.
I live in this community. I have for several years. It's not that widely known, since I don't know who you mean.
You allude to shady dealings but refuse to name names or offer proof. All you say is there are rumours.
Seriously, exercise your freedom of expression. Clear the air so we all know who you are talking about.
I'd like to stop suspecting all my neighbours and know who this corrupt person is in case I'm taken in by them in future. EEk! or have been in the past.
Consider it a public service.

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:12 pm

Who said anything about a "shady deal" or "corruption?"

I said "Don't make me laugh about the P3 deal with Corix Utilities being 'the best bet.' I think most people around here know what was behind that deal and it most certainly was not in the best interests of the people."

You're assuming something was "shady."

The deal was not in the best interests of the people because it would cost them substantially more than if they were to place drinking water under the regional district's jurisdiction. A "local" stood to gain from that lucrative financial arrangement.
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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by Bob Loblaw on Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:01 pm

pen wrote:All civilized people understand that freedom of expression does not prevail when it will do harm to another.

Most fairly civilized people know that letting it prevail while harming another is grounds for a lawsuit.

Most uncivilized people know all of the above and don't give a damn.

So your insults against Susan Roth are okay? "Freedom of Expression does not prevail when it will do harm to another"...What a joke for you to say that, considering your comments. It must be tough for you to be such a miserable #### but I would strongly suggest you shut your pie-hole and quit trying to lure people into "naming names". It is well known who YOU are. Shall someone "out" you too?

Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by pen on Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:18 pm

Bob Loblaw wrote:
pen wrote:All civilized people understand that freedom of expression does not prevail when it will do harm to another.

Most fairly civilized people know that letting it prevail while harming another is grounds for a lawsuit.

Most uncivilized people know all of the above and don't give a damn.

So your insults against Susan Roth are okay? "Freedom of Expression does not prevail when it will do harm to another"...What a joke for you to say that, considering your comments. It must be tough for you to be such a miserable #### but I would strongly suggest you shut your pie-hole and quit trying to lure people into "naming names". It is well known who YOU are. Shall someone "out" you too?

Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil

Welcome aboard. Only your second post and it's a hatchet job. Once you've been "outed" that's endgame for that old threat ever working again. Since the sweetheart you champion is the self same "outer" who just attempted to repeat the feat in this thread, I think you all ought to come up to speed on this nonsense.

I am not attempting to "lure" anyone into naming names. I'm asking them outright to do the honorable thing and stop using innuendo and smear. If there is a local who stood to gain big time from the Corix deal, then kindly name them. Otherwise, every local is smeared with the same manure and the community certainly doesn't deserve THAT.

Unless of course, the claim is that the unnamed local did something illegal.

In which case, I'd suggest the topic be dropped since the invisible one has made it clear, clear and clear again that pretty well everybody knows the name without it being posted.

How deep a pit should we aim to dig here?


Last edited by pen on Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:32 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by hedder on Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:13 pm

This thread is a scary case of Narcissism. The long winded diatribes from InvisiGoth (who wants to be known, don't be fooled) should be used as an example in Psyc 101...
Run, people, run...

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:25 pm

hedder wrote: This thread is a scary case of Narcissism. The long winded diatribes from InvisiGoth (who wants to be known, don't be fooled) should be used as an example in Psyc 101...
Run, people, run...

Maybe those "long-winded diatribes" are nothing more than a voice that has been squashed for too long. Maybe if I were an editor of a newspaper I could reduce the space it takes to present the whole picture? The issue is 8 years old. It can't be told in 250 words or less. There has been a gag order on this topic for a long long time on another local web board and this website offers a place to finally talk about it. BTW I am not trying to hide my identity...I have never done that. If you got a problem with that so be it. I don't like the idea of hiding behind false names but it seems to be the way things work on-line.



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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by hedder on Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:45 pm

BTW I am not trying to hide my identity...I have never done that. If you got a problem with that so be it.
Then why aren't you posting under your real name? Or even your real gender? Boy, that through everyone off, for sure! Rolling Eyes

Get out from behind your computer, and do some footwork, knock on doors, bang some heads, you know, really show you care, without all the "look at me" fanfare that you so desire. Get off your ass and DO something if it matters so much to you!!!

But don't expect much... Gov=sloooooow!

*You are welcome for this "narcissistic feed", but now I'm gonna let you starve...

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:51 pm

hedder wrote:
BTW I am not trying to hide my identity...I have never done that. If you got a problem with that so be it.
Then why aren't you posting under your real name? Or even your real gender? Boy, that through everyone off, for sure! Rolling Eyes

Get out from behind your computer, and do some footwork, knock on doors, bang some heads, you know, really show you care, without all the "look at me" fanfare that you so desire. Get off your ass and DO something if it matters so much to you!!!

But don't expect much... Gov=sloooooow!

*You are welcome for this "narcissistic feed", but now I'm gonna let you starve...
If someone asked me for my real name I would have given it to them. I use a false name because of a problem that I have with an individual in this community. I don't like doing it at all. I would rather be completely open.

It makes me laugh when you say bang on some doors because I have banged on many doors and spoken with hundreds of people. Most of the people that I talk to, think just like me. I have also talked directly to the government and they have informed me many times that it is up to the people to push this through. The government can see what is going on but are powerless to act in most cases. The ministry that oversees improvement districts and regional districts has published a policy manual just for conversions. These conversions happen often. It's not something that takes a long time to do. It usually takes 6 months. Back in October 2010, BCID publicly said they were converting to a service area of the regional district...that was 18 months ago. It's all here: http://www2.canada.com/albernivalleytimes/story.html?id=151401f7-eef2-4e35-af8c-995c03a393e0


Last edited by The Invisible Man on Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by pen on Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:57 pm

The Invisible Man wrote:
hedder wrote: This thread is a scary case of Narcissism. The long winded diatribes from InvisiGoth (who wants to be known, don't be fooled) should be used as an example in Psyc 101...
Run, people, run...

Maybe those "long-winded diatribes" are nothing more than a voice that has been squashed for too long. Maybe if I were an editor of a newspaper I could reduce the space it takes to present the whole picture? There has been a gag order on this topic for a long long time on another local web board and this website offers a place to finally talk about the issue. BTW I am not trying to hide my identity...I have never done that. If you got a problem with that so be it. I don't like the idea of hiding behind false names but it seems to be the way things work on-line.



I searched and searched this site and couldn't find a rule anywhere that says you have to use a screen name other than your very own name.
On that gag website, you and I had a discussion about my identity and why I use a screen name. If you recall, it had nothing to do with my employment contracts and freelance work. There's someone in my past who poses a genuine threat to my well being. That didn't stop you from "outing" me or repeating it here. You can call it 'hiding' if you wish, but in this instance, Google is not my friend and that's the reason for the way things work on line for me.
Anyway, this is pretty much off topic and dangerously personal.
Your complaint is that the BCID is dragging its heels in completing the conversion process. Be assured there are legal limits to how long they could do that if they are indeed doing it. In the fullness of time, this improvement district will become a service area and then it's anybody's guess to how soon, and for what cost, our VIHA 4-3-2-1 water will be delivered to our taps.



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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:13 pm

I can empathize with you Pen, but it's really hard to do when you say nasty things about me. Why would you create a blog with your identity on it and announce it on-line that you are the creator then make it my problem for linking to it? That does not make sense. I have a blog and can easily delete or change information that is in it. Why don't you?

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:23 pm

Pen you and I share history. It happened in the early 1980s. I think it's weird that we both ended up in the same small town which is also the location of an important event that is tied to our shared history.

I will remove the link to your blog...it would be nice if you were nicer towards me.
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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by Admin on Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:23 pm

Just a friendly reminder, this is an anonymous forum and I wish to keep it that way. If someone wishes to voluntarily provide their name, so be it.

In The Future:

Please refrain from legal threats. If you have a legitimate problem PM me and we will look into it.With the sad fact that we are now becoming a society of "ambulance chasers" it would be nice to have some degree of comfort within the forum.
Very Happy
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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by Possum on Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:58 pm

Ambulance chasing or a desire to quash those opposed to your point of view. It is so easy tom out-lawyer a victim and then .......

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:20 pm

...once you learn that legal threats must have substance to them, you learn to ignore them.

I have received more than one of them and in the end they have always resulted in NOTHING!
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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by pen on Fri Mar 23, 2012 11:47 pm

The Invisible Man wrote:I can empathize with you Pen, but it's really hard to do when you say nasty things about me. Why would you create a blog with your identity on it and announce it on-line that you are the creator then make it my problem for linking to it? That does not make sense. I have a blog and can easily delete or change information that is in it. Why don't you?

Who needs wifebeater empathy? You know, the kind that says "gee honey I'm sorry you have bruises and all but why do you make it so easy for me to whip the shit out of ya??

As for this:
Pen you and I share history. It happened in the early 1980s. I think it's weird that we both ended up in the same small town which is also the location of an important event that is tied to our shared history . ..
I sincerely doubt it. Where were you in the early 1980s?


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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:03 am

pen wrote:
The Invisible Man wrote:I can empathize with you Pen, but it's really hard to do when you say nasty things about me. Why would you create a blog with your identity on it and announce it on-line that you are the creator then make it my problem for linking to it? That does not make sense. I have a blog and can easily delete or change information that is in it. Why don't you?

Who needs wifebeater empathy? You know, the kind that says "gee honey I'm sorry you have bruises and all but why do you make it so easy for me to whip the shit out of ya??

As for this:
Pen you and I share history. It happened in the early 1980s. I think it's weird that we both ended up in the same small town which is also the location of an important event that is tied to our shared history . ..
I sincerely doubt it. Where were you in the early 1980s?


I have empathy for anyone that has experienced violence. Why did you use your real name when you created your blog? Why can't you remove it? I checked my blog and know for sure that all personal information can easily be deleted or amended. The history that is created by Google eventually goes away.

In the early 1980s, I lived on the lower mainland in Surrey.
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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by pen on Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:15 am

The Invisible Man wrote:. . .
In the early 1980s, I lived on the lower mainland in Surrey.

I didn't.

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:22 am

pen wrote:
The Invisible Man wrote:. . .
In the early 1980s, I lived on the lower mainland in Surrey.

I didn't.

I was involved with something that happened there in the early 1980s and was told more than once that you were involved in it too. Perhaps someone is spreading misinformation around about you? It wouldn't surprise me.
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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by pen on Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:32 am

The Invisible Man wrote:
pen wrote:
The Invisible Man wrote:. . .
In the early 1980s, I lived on the lower mainland in Surrey.

I didn't.

I was involved with something that happened there in the early 1980s and was told more than once that you were involved in it too. Perhaps someone is spreading misinformation around about you? It wouldn't surprise me.

PM some details.

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by Possum on Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:23 am

I can hardly wait to see what bandwagon you'll jump on after the BCID gets axed. You have been working to get this done ever since the heave ho was given. lol!

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:00 am

Possum wrote:I can hardly wait to see what bandwagon you'll jump on after the BCID gets axed. You have been working to get this done ever since the heave ho was given. lol!

One thing for sure -- you don't know me at all. I have been following this water issue since 1999. That is a long time and it is high time that it was finally resolved. I would never enter the political arena again. The game of politics is too nasty for me and it takes too long to accomplish even the simplest task. My passion is already placed somewhere else...a place where I will personally benefit from all of the hard work that I put into things.
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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by The Invisible Man on Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:41 pm

This LINK contains the latest information from the ACRD. Looking over the reports it is easy to see why it was so discouraging to learn BCID's March meeting was cancelled. ACRD approved their end of it.
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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

Post by Jeckle on Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:51 pm

Admin wrote:Just a friendly reminder, this is an anonymous forum and I wish to keep it that way. If someone wishes to voluntarily provide their name, so be it.

In The Future:

Please refrain from legal threats. If you have a legitimate problem PM me and we will look into it.With the sad fact that we are now becoming a society of "ambulance chasers" it would be nice to have some degree of comfort within the forum.
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Do you understand a little better now as to why Jack made this topic off limits?
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The players love all of this, don't be fooled.
Anyone could have ignored this topic and it would have died a quiet little death.
They keep coming back for more....and I love reading it. Wink

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Re: Speaking of Beaver Creek's Drinking Water...

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